Principle Two - Part 1

As I said in my last post, I got an email last week from one of Joel's family members.

He outlined two principles of marriage and said, "These two principles may help you understand how we deal with differences in marriage and the reason for not supporting excommunication."

And by excommunication he means cutting ties with someone.  They just like to use the word 'excommunication' because it has such a negative, unhealthy, severe connotation.

And they don't believe in cutting ties with anyone, family or not.

Now...I speak to the person who sent this email, and the family in general.

The past will be brought up here.  This is something that you don't like...to 'rehash' the past.  But, this is not done to 'rehash' things just to rehash them.  This is not to rub your nose in what you did.  This is not to shame you.  This is not to try to make you look bad.  This is not to prove that I now have a right to retaliate (which I have no interest in).  For NONE of those reasons do we need to go through the history of the past.  The reason we need to go through the history is because there are points to be made about your Principle Two.  And only by going through the history can we get to those points.

I responded to Principle One in the last post.  Now, I will respond to the last part of Principle Two.  I will respond to the first part in my next post. 

Principle #2

[Eph 6:2-3 NKJV] Honor your father and mother," which is the first commandment with promise: that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth. 

There is no condition attached to justify not obeying this principle. I don't see any warrant in scriptures for completely cutting off relationship with our parents. If my parents had become unsafe during the 10 years we lived near and worked with them, there would have been ways to deal with it at my end. But in no way am I to completely cut off relationship with parents. 

I do not believe there is such a thing as choosing between my family of origin and my wife and children. When married, I leave and cleave, but my love, respect and honor to my extended family is in no way a threat to my marriage. In my opinion this honoring of parents and in-laws is what comprises healthy families. I will never understand why you feel Joel chooses us over you. To me this is not a real choice any family member ever has to make. The natural affection one has for family of origin is a God given affection, and is not a threat to the immediate family.

As we talked about in the last post, we must live in the truth here.  Let the truth about everything I'm about to say sink in and change you.

"The natural affection one has for family of origin" is many many many many times "a threat to the immediate family." It happens OFTEN.

To even say that sentence that you said shows that you are not living in reality.  It shows that you live in a state of delusion, honestly.

Of course it is a very real choice that family members often have to make.

Maybe you would say, "Oh, of course I meant in normal, safe families.  Not families where physical or sexual abuse is taking place."  But no, that should never be a given.  If you literally say that there is no reason to ever disconnect from family, then that is what you meant.  But, there are so many reasons to disconnect from family.  Surely you would see physical or sexual threats as a reason.  Yes?

If you wouldn't say that, then we have a problem.  Then you are showing yourself to be EXTREMELY unsafe and scary.  Extremely.

But, if you would say that it's definitely appropriate to disconnect from/cut ties with a family that is physically and sexually threatening, would you say the same thing about a family that is emotionally/psychologically/spiritually threatening?

I hope so.

As we said in the last post...

If you "mention" (as you say) to your spouse "once or twice" that something is hurting you so so bad, that you are in dire need of stopping and being taken care of, that you cannot go any longer without a break to rest and recover, that moving forward would damage you tremendously and you just simply cannot do it...then no, you do not just 'commit that to the Lord in prayer' (although of course I did that) and yet just keep going if it isn't changed.  When that is 'mentioned' to a spouse, if that spouse does not stop what he's doing and take care of his wife, then that is, by all definitions, neglect.  And if he keeps doing what he is doing, and the wife stops (because she has to), and that spouse starts to then blame the wife saying that she is the one at fault, that she is trying to control and manipulate him, that she is being difficult...and even others start to join in with him in saying that...
That is abuse.  By all definitions, that is abuse.

So, do you see where you and your family have been emotionally/psychologically/spiritually threatening and unsafe?

I also went over some of the things you all did in this post.  Not just one-time things that can be seen as 'mistakes.'  No, we are talking about patterns of behavior that lasted for years.

If you need a review of even more things that were part of that, for many years, that were emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually threatening and unsafe, then let me know.  I have it all documented.

So...when someone, anyone, is unsafe or threatening or abusive in any way, and instead of letting truth change them (again, that is Jesus' way) they just continue in that, do you see where it is warranted and recommended to disconnect from those damaging people?

Where have I lost you here?  What part of this, so far, do you not agree with?

Do you not agree that you were unsafe or threatening or abusive?  Even if I supply you with the documentation of your wrongs against me, is your belief that those things are not unsafe/threatening/abusive?

Let me tell you that everyone who has seen the documentation, including your grandchildren, has seen what you did as abusive.  Unsafe.  Damaging.  Threatening to me and my health...and the health of our whole family (me, Joel, the kids).

And the fact that you kept doing it...kept believing those beliefs (not allowing truth to change you), kept acting in those ways, kept harming after you had been told it was damaging our family...that is even more proof that you and your family are unsafe and threatening and abusive.

When someone is saying to you, "This is hurting me.  This is damaging me and my family," and you just continue to do those things?  If there were ever any question about whether you were safe or not, with that it is answered.

When someone is saying you are hurting them, and they give very specific directions about why, and about how not to hurt them, they are not being 'controlling and manipulative' (what you accused me of).  They are being loving.  They are staying the course, trying to be with you, trying to help you to see how not to lose them.

But when you just continue to hurt, it isn't possible to stay.

Do you not understand that?

Ebersole family, I would like an answer to that question, and these posts.  Immediately.  You can comment here, or you can email me. 

*If you are tempted to simply say, "I just don't agree," that is not good enough.  You will need evidence to back up what you could possibly disagree with here.

After I get your immediate answers, then we will continue with the response about the two principles.